Sunday, March 21, 2010

Medjugorje Haters

What a strange and irrational breed is the Medjugorje hater. What an unnecessary clamour and din they create. Everybody, even the hardest Medjugorje believer, even John-Paul II, knew that caution should be exercised in the matter of private revelation.

But for people like Mark Waterinckx, Richard Salbato, E Michael Jones and a number of others, it goes beyond this, for some utterly unknown reason.

A recent article from Mark Waterinckx reminded me of another interesting article of about the same time - one from Christopher Hitchens - which doth protest far too much and far too irrationally for people to take seriously. Comments that just haven't been thought through properly. Pure I've-got-nothing-else-to-do bluster. These people are in some type of fantasy world all of their own fighting a cause of their own and all for their own benefit and justification. It really has nothing to do with the Church because the Church already has quite a good working system for dealing with these issues.

We should really see what is behind all this bluster and whether any of it should be taken the slightest notice of, as if we didn't already know the answer to that.

Mark doesn't believe what Christ told us about how we should discern if something is from God - i.e. by its fruits. By fruits, we are certainly talking about the "important" fruits, for we all know that where there are good crops, weeds will also spring up. Mark wants to create confusion (who else likes doing that? Satan, I believe) by calling the weeds the so-called "fruit".

And Mark has little faith in Almighty God, Who reaps where He does not sow and can make anything good from anything evil, such that, even if Medjugorje were the most evil incarnation yet witnessed on earth, God is certainly watching out for the Church isn't He by the look of the unmistakable fruits the church sorely needs at this time.

Indeed, nothing can happen without God's ultimate consent. If Mark's destructive intent weren't so obvious, one might almost forgive him for simply "panicking" out of a lack of faith in God. But, God told us to "Be still and know that I am God", not run around like a chicken with its head cut off, brandishing a machine gun which rattles off the same tired and unjust accusations of profiteering and con-artistry. Here's an example:

..the disobedience of the seers and of the Franciscans of Medjugorje, the rebellion against the bishops and the Pope, the fanaticism, the manipulations, lies, contradictions, the profiteering, the luxurious homes of the “seers”, the sex scandals of the Franciscans, the suspended Franciscan rebels involved in Medjugorje and their illegal sacraments.

Even the hardest Medjugorje believer, even John-Paul II himself, wouldn't try to deny there have been controversies surrounding personalities, but unfortunately, again, the magnifying glass has been focused on the wrong thing. In a freer, more transparent situation, we would probably be spared this lop-sided misreporting because the world would more clearly see the full picture which unfortunately involves the Bishops of Mostar themselves, in damaging light, having a direct bearing on civility and co-operation between clerics of different orders in this region (see the History of the Herzegovinian Affair).

Mark hesitates not the slightest in making accusations such as this:

The commercial believers earn a great deal of money from their "goldmine", e.g. the Franciscans of Medjugorje, the “seers”, the organizers of the pilgrimages, the sellers of videos, DVDs, books etc.

But, if you asked him to back up these claims that all the franciscans and seers are getting rich from these apparitions, you wouldn't get one single document, one single bank transaction, one single news report or expozee after nearly 30 years. The silence is deafening for people like Mark. Reality is not backing him up. Yet, he keeps repeating the same accusations. These people open their mouths and hatred and false witness spews out.

Mark continues:

Among the not for profit believers are those who naively accept everything and who only read books, periodicals and websites which are pro Medjugorje and who thus can be considered to be misled by their ignorance.

Far from being "misled by their ignorance", the more calm, faithful, thinking individual simply does not want to be misled by conspiracy theory, nor to be led into sin. Mark has broken the 8th commandment on numerous occasions with his false witness borne against innocent people. He must be feeling a little lonely in this sin because he would like the rest of us to join him. No thanks, Mark.

We just need to count the number of times any conspiracy has been proven completely wrong, and look at the types of people involved in perpetuating these theories, to know categorically that the wisest course of action is just to get the facts and wait for the Vatican and, if so desired, take a private pilgrimage and let the Lord speak in the stillness of your own heart.

Here's Mark calling the kettle black:

With both groups there are many believers who display a marked degree of fanaticism and obsessiveness. Medjugorje has become their all encompassing dogma which overrides everything else. This fanaticism overrode all common sense, critical evaluation, intellectual honesty, prudence and friendship. This attitude can only be explained by the influence of the “diabolos”, the evil spirit, the malign entity which everywhere sows enmity and disunity.

People have reacted to Medjugorje much as God would hope they would if past apparitions are anything to go by, such as Lourdes, Guadaloupe and Fatima. Such was the "fanaticism" at Guadalupe that the entire country of Mexico converted to Catholicism. 70,000 people marvelled with pure emotion at the miracle of the sun at Fatima. God's power and might doesn't leave much room for anything else but pure emotion. The same thing happens wherever God permits an apparition to occur. The whole idea is to elicit a strong reaction from the people. Yet, Mark has somehow managed to contort this natural and God-willed situation into a negative.

No, the only fanaticism we are witnessing here is modern and media-driven. It came along with the cult of conspiracy theory, who-dunnits, PI and reality TV shows. People are making money right now making movies and writing books and blogs talking about conspiracy at Medjugorje. It's what sells these days. But, wiser heads just aren't buying. We've had enough. We're waiting for the Vatican and we will obey the Vatican.

Mark talks about "intellectual honesty, prudence and friendship" as if he somehow possesses these things, unlike Medjugorje believers. There is no intellectual (or moral) honesty in accusing someone of being a fraudster without an iota of proof. There is no prudence in this. There is no friendship in this. Mark is blissfully unaware that he is one of Satan's starring pawns in the sowing of this enmity and disunity he accuses people who love Medjugorje of.

I will address Mark's further comments in a separate post.


  1. How can anyone beliee that there is no profiteering by any of the seers? It's well documented that Ivan has commercialed his home in Medjugorje for incoming pilgrimages for profit. He has a well organized tour business to his home. And what about his Million dollar property in the Boston area? How can anyone believe the Gospa told Marija that Fr. Slavko was in heaven with her the day after he died. What about the known instances of necromancy by Ivanka physically hugging her dead mother? Are these things of the demon?

  2. You are absolute proof of the silliness I have just described in my article. The fact that you are not willing to stop will count against you. I suggest, in order that you don't suffer any more than you need to in front of Christ, that you personally interview Ivan and all the seers about their financial situations and whatever else you wish to know. And, if you've made a mistake, apologise extremely quickly and correct others who are causing damage. And, if you continue to spread these rumours without having done these things, then may God's judgement rain down on you.

  3. "But, if you asked him to back up these claims that all the franciscans and seers are getting rich from these apparitions, you wouldn't get one single document, one single bank transaction, one single news report or expozee after nearly 30 years. The silence is deafening for people like Mark. Reality is not backing him up. Yet, he keeps repeating the same accusations. These people open their mouths and hatred and false witness spews out."

    Here's your documents:

  4. Unfortunately, Mark, most of us don't speak Italian.


  6. I'm not sure what the accusations are here. From what I can tell from this brief link, Ivan and his wife have had some real estate transactions. Buying and selling land and travel packages? Have I overlooked something? Was there some fraud involved?

  7. “We're waiting for the Vatican and we will obey the Vatican”, Paul Baylis writes.

    This is the only point I agree with him. All the rest of his article is slander and insult against a honest person, who was 24 times in Medjugorje.

    He refused to accept this my written reaction.
    Therefore I try again now.

    Pax et Bonum to all people, believers and non-believers of Medjugorje. I love them all. I don’t know ‘hate’.


  8. Answer the question Mark. I quoted you in my article saying the manipulations, lies, contradictions, the profiteering, the luxurious homes of the "seers", the sex scandals of the Franciscans.
    When I asked you to provide evidence, you sent me an article that shows that Ivan had some real estate and travel package sales and purchases. I want to know where the connection to fraud, profiteering etc is.

    You can oppose Medjugorje freely, but I suggest not using these types of shady unproven means, involving scandal, slander, libel, hearsay etc. That reeks of fanaticism.

    And here you are saying that I am slandering YOU. All I am doing is exposing YOUR slander. I'm stopping people being taken in by you. But, it's interesting that you don't like it when you're on the receiving end, yet have no qualms about dishing it out. How many lives have you removed peace from, yet you sign off "Pax et Bonum".

    Put down your poison pen Mark. The Vatican is quite capable of conducting this investigation. Why not just pray and fast for the conversion of unbelievers as Our Lady has asked us to do. That's what Mejdugorje-believers want to do if they could just get your noise out of their ears.

  9. Here is the BBC report on Medjugorje, 18. August 2010:

  10. Very interesting!
    All the people who consider the so-called apparitions from Medjugorje as a fake,are considered "haters". Typical for the communist-goebbelsian propaganda of the Medjugorje fans!!! Sorry Paul, you are totaly intoxicated by this virus!
    A Psychiatrist from Europe

  11. “Dear children! Already for many years as a Mother, I have been teaching you faith and God's love. You have not shown gratitude to the dear Father nor have you given him glory. You have become empty and your heart has become hard and without love toward your neighbours' sufferings. I am teaching you love and showing you that the dear Father loved you but you have not loved him. He sacrificed his Son for your salvation, my children. As long as you do not love, you will not know your Father's love. You won't get to know him because God is love. Love and don't be afraid, my children, because there is no fear in love. If your hearts are open to the Father and if they are full of love toward him, then why any fear of what is to come? Those who are afraid are the ones who do not love because they are waiting for punishments and because they know how empty and hard they are. Children, I am leading you to love, to the dear Father. I am leading you to eternal life. Eternal life is my Son. Receive him and you have received love. ”

    1. this message is based on 1 John 4:18-Fear is not in charity: but perfect charity casteth out fear, because fear hath pain. And he that feareth, is not perfected in we cannot attain perfection in anythin on this earth only through the beatific vision will we be perfected in love...however to say one who has imperfect contrition does not love is incorrect...The Council of Trent (1545-1563) was the first council to comment on the matter. It defined contrition (perfect or imperfect) as "sorrow of soul, and a hatred of sin committed, with a firm purpose of not sinning in the future" [1] However, while perfect contrition is motivated out of a love of God, imperfect contrition is motivated for other reasons, such as "the consideration of the turpitude of sin or from the fear of hell and punishment" [2] Therefore, it declared, "If any man assert that attrition . . . is not a true and a profitable sorrow; that it does not prepare the soul for grace, but that it makes a man a hypocrite, yea, even a greater sinner, let him be anathema."...indeed it is all about being perfected in love..those who have a hard heart are the ones who do not fear God's pharoah in the old testament did not fear and he perished since Holy fear is the begginning of wisdom....wisdom is properly orderd knowledge and we get that from applying our faith and reason to the precepts of the church..not to any apparitions per this message in my opinion has scripture contradicting itself..indeed we are told by the apostle that we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling since our charity cannot be perfect in this maybe someone can explain it a little better????...i dont believe this is a message from the mother of God...when the vision says those who are afraid do not love...this is contradicts the council of trent..when the vision says they know how empty and hard they is ambiguous since one with a hardened heart would imply no sanctifying grace in their soul hence their conscience would be lacking discernment and they wouldn't know how far removed from grace they is a contradiction again by saying the more sinful a person the more aware they are is like saying the more ignorant a person is the more wise they are ..since sin is ignorance and grace is properly ordered i am wary of this message...

  12. I think I am right in saying that the messages emphasise prayer but not Bible study.
    The Bible is the way of salvation. Ignorance of the Bible is ignorance of Christ.
    Even Jesus the Son of God needed scripture to make the Devil flee - the sword of the spirit
    is scripture. The whole of the bible tells us that constant scripture study is the way to
    be saved - if we apply it - Paul also tells us that scripture is sufficient - contains everything we need for salvation. Has the vision ever emphasised scripture.

  13. PS - It was St Jerome who said ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ.

  14. @charles allan, while you are right that we should spend time studying Scripture (as the Church has long said, still says & will continue to say), the Rosary is an intense study of the Bible, particularly the Gospels, when done properly.

    If you do not understand, find a copy of a Scriptural Rosary - it will help you see the connection. Scripture is the source of the Rosary.

  15. I would think that most of the rosary is scriptural but I have only prayed a little of this
    when it was done in church. The spirits must be tested - I wonder if anyone has tested the spirit of Medjugorje at the beginning. I have read some statements from this vision and they dont agree with scripture - saying that there are many ways to God is from the Devil - the only way to God is through Jesus the son - Paul said we are to divide from other religions since they have the doctrines of demons.
    Remember the long term plan of the devil is to unite all religions to worship himself
    as the antichrist - so my alarm bells go off when someone says there are many ways to God
    - there is only one way and your catechism teaches this one way and also teaches no communication with heretics in false religions.

  16. private revelations add nothing essential for salvation to the deposit of the faith..we are not required to believe in any of questioning the veracity what sin could one be committing to induce such a statement as...'may God's judgement rain down upon you'....if anything being a healthy skeptic and proceeding with caution would be a proper stance to trusting the words of sel;f styled seers over the established doctrines of the church one is putting one's faith in jeopardy through pride and presumption....relying on private revelations can open one to an occasion of sin as john of the cross states through spiritual gluttony...its best to take medjugorje with a grain of salt... sacraments and sacramentals are good...following seers around the globe is a waste of time a distraction from the task at hand which is to love one's neighbour according to one's station doing works of temporal mercy all the money people have spent going on pilgrimage could be donated to the poor it is a tremendous travesty of obedience no virtue no virtue no God no God no good......


Share This