Medjugorje Haters

What a strange and irrational breed is the Medjugorje hater. What an unnecessary clamour and din they create. Everybody, even the hardest Medjugorje believer, even John-Paul II, knew that caution should be exercised in the matter of private revelation.

But for people like Mark Waterinckx, Richard Salbato, E Michael Jones and a number of others, it goes beyond this, for some utterly unknown reason.

A recent article from Mark Waterinckx reminded me of another interesting article of about the same time - one from Christopher Hitchens - which doth protest far too much and far too irrationally for people to take seriously. Comments that just haven't been thought through properly. Pure I've-got-nothing-else-to-do bluster. These people are in some type of fantasy world all of their own fighting a cause of their own and all for their own benefit and justification. It really has nothing to do with the Church because the Church already has quite a good working system for dealing with these issues.

We should really see what is behind all this bluster and whether any of it should be taken the slightest notice of, as if we didn't already know the answer to that.

Mark doesn't believe what Christ told us about how we should discern if something is from God - i.e. by its fruits. By fruits, we are certainly talking about the "important" fruits, for we all know that where there are good crops, weeds will also spring up. Mark wants to create confusion (who else likes doing that? Satan, I believe) by calling the weeds the so-called "fruit".

And Mark has little faith in Almighty God, Who reaps where He does not sow and can make anything good from anything evil, such that, even if Medjugorje were the most evil incarnation yet witnessed on earth, God is certainly watching out for the Church isn't He by the look of the unmistakable fruits the church sorely needs at this time.

Indeed, nothing can happen without God's ultimate consent. If Mark's destructive intent weren't so obvious, one might almost forgive him for simply "panicking" out of a lack of faith in God. But, God told us to "Be still and know that I am God", not run around like a chicken with its head cut off, brandishing a machine gun which rattles off the same tired and unjust accusations of profiteering and con-artistry. Here's an example:

..the disobedience of the seers and of the Franciscans of Medjugorje, the rebellion against the bishops and the Pope, the fanaticism, the manipulations, lies, contradictions, the profiteering, the luxurious homes of the “seers”, the sex scandals of the Franciscans, the suspended Franciscan rebels involved in Medjugorje and their illegal sacraments.

Even the hardest Medjugorje believer, even John-Paul II himself, wouldn't try to deny there have been controversies surrounding personalities, but unfortunately, again, the magnifying glass has been focused on the wrong thing. In a freer, more transparent situation, we would probably be spared this lop-sided misreporting because the world would more clearly see the full picture which unfortunately involves the Bishops of Mostar themselves, in damaging light, having a direct bearing on civility and co-operation between clerics of different orders in this region (see the History of the Herzegovinian Affair).

Mark hesitates not the slightest in making accusations such as this:

The commercial believers earn a great deal of money from their "goldmine", e.g. the Franciscans of Medjugorje, the “seers”, the organizers of the pilgrimages, the sellers of videos, DVDs, books etc.

But, if you asked him to back up these claims that all the franciscans and seers are getting rich from these apparitions, you wouldn't get one single document, one single bank transaction, one single news report or expozee after nearly 30 years. The silence is deafening for people like Mark. Reality is not backing him up. Yet, he keeps repeating the same accusations. These people open their mouths and hatred and false witness spews out.

Mark continues:

Among the not for profit believers are those who naively accept everything and who only read books, periodicals and websites which are pro Medjugorje and who thus can be considered to be misled by their ignorance.

Far from being "misled by their ignorance", the more calm, faithful, thinking individual simply does not want to be misled by conspiracy theory, nor to be led into sin. Mark has broken the 8th commandment on numerous occasions with his false witness borne against innocent people. He must be feeling a little lonely in this sin because he would like the rest of us to join him. No thanks, Mark.

We just need to count the number of times any conspiracy has been proven completely wrong, and look at the types of people involved in perpetuating these theories, to know categorically that the wisest course of action is just to get the facts and wait for the Vatican and, if so desired, take a private pilgrimage and let the Lord speak in the stillness of your own heart.

Here's Mark calling the kettle black:

With both groups there are many believers who display a marked degree of fanaticism and obsessiveness. Medjugorje has become their all encompassing dogma which overrides everything else. This fanaticism overrode all common sense, critical evaluation, intellectual honesty, prudence and friendship. This attitude can only be explained by the influence of the “diabolos”, the evil spirit, the malign entity which everywhere sows enmity and disunity.

People have reacted to Medjugorje much as God would hope they would if past apparitions are anything to go by, such as Lourdes, Guadaloupe and Fatima. Such was the "fanaticism" at Guadalupe that the entire country of Mexico converted to Catholicism. 70,000 people marvelled with pure emotion at the miracle of the sun at Fatima. God's power and might doesn't leave much room for anything else but pure emotion. The same thing happens wherever God permits an apparition to occur. The whole idea is to elicit a strong reaction from the people. Yet, Mark has somehow managed to contort this natural and God-willed situation into a negative.

No, the only fanaticism we are witnessing here is modern and media-driven. It came along with the cult of conspiracy theory, who-dunnits, PI and reality TV shows. People are making money right now making movies and writing books and blogs talking about conspiracy at Medjugorje. It's what sells these days. But, wiser heads just aren't buying. We've had enough. We're waiting for the Vatican and we will obey the Vatican.

Mark talks about "intellectual honesty, prudence and friendship" as if he somehow possesses these things, unlike Medjugorje believers. There is no intellectual (or moral) honesty in accusing someone of being a fraudster without an iota of proof. There is no prudence in this. There is no friendship in this. Mark is blissfully unaware that he is one of Satan's starring pawns in the sowing of this enmity and disunity he accuses people who love Medjugorje of.

I will address Mark's further comments in a separate post.

Pope Benedict, John Paul II, Medjugorje (..and E Michael Jones)

The sustained length of the alleged apparitions at Medjugorje (since 1981) is getting people stir-crazy. Nothing new has come from the Vatican since the Zadar Declaration of 1991, when essentially we were told to "Wait, nothing has yet been determined. More investigations are possible".
To the sensible observer familiar with the Medjugorje story and Vatican procedure, this made sense even if it were only for the fact that the apparitions had not yet ceased as it is highly unusual for the Vatican to pronounce on an apparition that is still ongoing.

But, have people waited? A few have not. There are a number of self-styled pseudo-journalistic conspiracy theorists waving the flag of "Truth", who have been causing more damage and division in the Catholic Church than anything else. Furthermore, because nothing new has come from the Vatican, these conspiracy theorists need to either rehash the old stuff or create illusions, like what E Michael has done recently in this article - an interview by the Serbian newspaper - Politika, featured by Matt C. Abbott.

The fruits of this activity are vile and divisive, creating massive confusion. Here's an example of what I come across every day on YouTube from an obviously half-decent Catholic with the handle SAYYOURROSARY:

SAYYOURROSARY: Medjugrorje has been condemmed by  even the New Order Cult "bishop" The fake "priest" has been defrocked ! The "p0pE" has said you are not allowed to go and that Medjugrorje is off limits ! What do you need to understand Medjugrorje is totally fake ?

Unbelievable stuff!

So, let's have a look at some of what these gentlemen said and get a feel for the kind of hearts and minds these conspiracy theorists possess:

E MICHAEL JONES: No, I don't think there has been any new information about Medjugorje for at least ten years. The main difference is the pope himself. When I met with then-ordinary of the Diocese of Mostar-Duvno, Bishop Pavao Zanic, in 1988, he told me that Cardinal Ratzinger, who is now Pope Benedict XVI, was in complete agreement that the so-called apparitions of Medjugorje were a hoax orchestrated by the renegade order of Franciscans in his diocese. Bishop Zanic then told me that he presented the same evidence to Pope John Paul II. 'And what did the pope say?' I asked. 'The pope said nothing,' Zanic replied. This confirms what I learned in my meetings with Cardinal Ratzinger. He was convinced that Medjugorje was a hoax from the beginning. The main reason for the inactivity in Rome was Pope John Paul II. The main reason for recent activity is Pope Benedict XVI, not new evidence.

Jones, lacking any direct quotes or statements from Ratzinger HIMSELF, attempts to manufacture Ratzinger's opinion from something Zanic allegedly said.

Ratzinger was head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith during John Paul II's pontificate. Ratzinger was involved in Medjugorje from the beginning. What he believes now should not differ much from what he believed then. And what exactly did Ratzinger believe? He believed that Zanic could not be trusted to judge on the authenticity of the apparitions of Medjugorje.

After Zanic gave Ratzinger the negative report on Medjugorje, Ratzinger removed the dossier from the hands of Zanic and place the investigative task in the hands of the Yugoslav Bishops' Conference? If Ratzinger were in complete agreement that the visions were a hoax, as Jones reports, we would have perhaps expected Ratzinger to approve his conclusions or at least allow him to carry on? But, what sort of a response did we see from Zanic that hints at the REAL reaction he received from Ratzinger? A concerted media campaign, against the desires of the Vatican, as we shall see very soon.

Zanic had been at the forefront of bitter disputes between the Franciscans and secular clergy for many years during the Herzegovinian Affair. He was naturally biassed against the Franciscans. When you couple this with his forced loyalty to the Yugoslav communist government who wanted him him to cease the apparitions immediately, it is highly unwise to paint Zanic as the most trustworthy of sources. I will say no more, but allow readers to make their own conclusions by reading here. It doesn't make good reading for Bishop Zanic. Please note: We are not deliberately trying to criticise one of Christ's shepherds/representatives. Please, let us constantly pray for them and give them our love and support as far as possible. This is purely for the sake of balance and to specifically answer those who try to use the opposition of the Bishops as bullets for their own guns. The following is an extract from Wikipedia on Zanic with my comments in blue in square brackets:

Žanić became so hostile to the events at Međugorje that he wrote a letter denouncing the apparitions and sent it publicly throughout the world [This is the same letter picked up on by E Michael Jones and every other conspiracy theorist you hear today. It is their ONLY source of material]. The Archbishop of the neighboring diocese, along with other high dignitaries, urged Žanić restraint in the strongest possible language between bishops. Hans Urs von Balthasar wrote to Žanić: "My Lord, what a sorry document you have sent throughout the world! I have been deeply pained to see the episcopal office degraded in this manner." He went on to say that Žanić was "bring[ing] out accusations which have been refuted a hundred times over."[1]

The Vatican also stepped in. A communiqué from the office of the Vatican secretary of State of April 1985, told Bishop Žanić in no uncertain terms to suspend the diffusion of [your] personal declarations."[2]

Zanic did not heed this letter and continued spreading his letters and opinions.
The fact that he even needed to begin his viral campaign of destruction should speak volumes to any sensible, unbiassed person. If the Vatican agrees with you, you don't need to embark on a self-justification campaign. You just need to wait for Vatican due process.

Much has been made of Franciscan and visionary disobedience towards the local bishop. We cannot condone disobedience, but we can understand it. By disregarding official Vatican warnings, the Bishop himself appeared to show the same disobedience he accused everyone else of, but apparently that's OK if you're a secular Bishop in Bosnia. The document "The Truth about the Herzegovinian Affair" is a litany of bad blood between Franciscans and Seculars resulting from dishonesty, disobedience and downright hatred. This is MUST READING for anyone who wishes to comment intelligently on Medjugorje. In a perfect world it would be required reading for Medjugorje reporters.

E MICHAEL JONES: I think this [the laicising of Fr. Tomislav Vlasic] is the first step in the Vatican's campaign to de-legitimize Medjugorje. Anyone familiar with the story knows that the apparitions were the creation of two Franciscan priests: Tomislav Vlasic and Jozo Zovko. Children do not create world-wide movements generating millions of dollars a year in revenue.

Jones puts himself in the league of people who are "familiar with the story". He isn't showing much familiarity at all. Firstly, Vlasic requested the laicisation (see here). Secondly, those who are really familiar with the story can see that Ratzinger is most likely protecting Medjugorje, not de-legitimising it as Jones ludicrously states. Just look at how quiet Ratko Peric is these days. He has either been officially gagged or simply has nothing happy to report (for Peric, happiness is the complete condemnation of Medugorje). Thirdly, and most telling, Vlasic's involvement with Medjugorje ended in 1985, more than twenty years ago, when the visionary Marija recanted and refused to acknowledge his claim that the Virgin endorsed his plan. He basically disappeared until we hear recently in the news about his laicisement.

Here's the thing - Conspiracy theorists are desperate for information, ANY information. The Vatican refuses to play into their hands, perhaps more wiser these days after the Zadar Declaration left people confused enough for conspiracy theorists to gain a foothold. So, when a piece of information comes along that has any indication of being negative to the Medjugorje case, you can bet your house and children that they will jump on it like a starving hyena on a sick antelope.

But, take a look at the wild, crazy-eyed accusations and innuendo he makes:

E MICHAEL JONES: The apparitions were the creation of two Franciscan priests: Tomislav Vlasic and Jozo Zovko...Children do not create world-wide movements generating millions of dollars a year in revenue.

It was Zanic who first referred to Vlasic this way. To say he was the "creator" implies he was around to see the actual creation - the illicit fruits - the "booty" as it were. But, as I've stated, he was out of Medjugorje by 1985. Pretty much an outcast, he would have been a key figure if anyone wanted to target him for an exposee.

Secondly, anyone who has taken the time to read the early testimonies will know the irony that Zanic originally wanted to approve the apparitions but that Zovko thought the children were lying. The really interesting thing is how it came about that both changed their positions. According to Zovko's testimony, he was praying in the Church when he received an inner locution to "Protect the Children". Next moment, he heard loud banging on the Church door only to find the children trying to escape the police.

Both Zanic and Zovko were called in for a "chat" by the Communist Secret Police and, under threat of jail, ordered to stop the apparitions and gatherings. Zovko elected to spend 3 years in jail rather than try to stop the apparitions. Zanic appeared to change his tune quite soon after that meeting. We need to keep the environment firmly in mind: In communist countries, in order to save the Catholic population from persecution, the Vatican often agrees to let the communist government endorse bishopric appointments.

So, we had the so-called "creator of the hoax" in jail, where he supposedly was still able to mastermind his dastardly, clandestine plans. That wasn't very clever of Zovko was it, if we rely on Jones' character assessment of Zovko as a criminal mastermind.

E Michael Jones needs to sit himself down in front of a mirror and ask himself where his hatred and irrationality comes from. He is apparently a Catholic who thinks the 8th Commandment does not apply to him. Does he think it's compelling racey "journalism" to create these fantasies at the expense of the reputation of innocent people? Save it Michael. But, if we were to bother to refute this accusation, it might go along the lines of this: After 28 years of apparitions, might it not be highly probable that at least one of the six visionaries, or thousands of others close to the visionaries, would expose the fraud. I dare say they have been offered handsomely to do so. One of E Michael Jones' seedy friends Phil Kronzer, a wealthy California business man hell-bent on destroying Medjugorje after his wife chose to believe while he didn't, would undoubtedly have tried to pull a string or two. But, we have nothing...nothing...nothing. That irks people like E Michael Jones. He NEEDS something. ANYTHING!!!

E MICHAEL JONES: When the true story gets out, bishops across the world will begin to ban the 'seers' from their dioceses. This has already happened in the Diocese of Joliet, outside of Chicago. Ivan Dragicevic can no longer show up in parishes there and fleece unsuspecting Catholics of their money.

I've not found anything to date to back up what Jones said regarding the ban from Joliet. I invite anyone else to show me the evidence that this is true. But, anyway, I would expect to see hundreds of parishes on the list if anything Jones says is remotely true. We have only one in 28 years? And Jones again exercises his self-appointed immunity from the 8th commandment by trampling on the reputation of Ivan Dragicevic. That's like playing Russian Roulette. I mean it's just testosterone-laden, impulsive, belligerent craziness. If the Vatican approves Medjugorje, I expect Jones to either become humble or to begin a new Catholic Cult, flourishing in disobedience and becoming, essentially, another Zanic or Peric and eventually getting into serious trouble. The Medjugorje house is clean now. It's ready for shrine status. Lies told have been revealed. Apologies have been made where due. The vast majority of unofficial Vatican comment has been favourable (read here). What's missing in this picture? Humility and patience from the likes of E Michael Jones.

E MICHAEL JONES: The Croatian bishops in general will say that the findings on Vlasic confirm their verdict of 'non constat supernaturalite,' which was handed down in 1990. Bishop Ratko Peric will say that the defrocking of Father Vlasic will confirm what he and the late Bishop Pavao Zanic have said all along. Medjugorje was the invention of a renegade and rebellious group of Franciscan priests who have used this hoax to enrich themselves financially at the expense of unity in the Church and of good relations with the Orthodox.

Wow, that's some tale. Jones is an author of fiction, not a journalist. Just listen to his brazen judgements and accusations. What sort of man is this? I don't want this man representing me, as a Catholic, to the world. What the heck happened to the basic Christian tenet of "judge not lest ye be judged". If he wants to be a Christian only by name and not in action, then at least abide by the legalistic "innocent until proven guilty". Mr Jones, where is the evidence?
The Yugoslav Bishops Conference vacillated on their decision in 1991. We have reports that they initially wanted to approve the apparitions, but that Zanic cried and complained so much that they watered down the conclusion to allow Zanic to save face. That watering down would also fit with two other key factors:

1. The communist government would not have been happy to hear that Catholic bishops in their country, who are supposed to heed them, had double-crossed them.


2. The apparitions had not finished at the time of the investigation so it would have been a highly unusual move to approve an apparition that was still ongoing.

So, we have the Zadar Declaration, which essentially stated: "Watch This Space". In the meantime, it was permitted for pilgrims to go to Medjugorje as long as nothing official was organised that gave the impression that the Vatican had completed its investigations. Something falling into this category might be "Join our pilgrimage to the latest approved Marian apparition at Medjugorje".

E Michael Jones has been at the forefront of twisting the Zadar Declaration into becoming something it never was intended to be. This led to many confused pilgrims, who eventually wrote a letter to the Vatican, which netted an unequivocal response from none less than Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone of the CDF (read here), which finally relieved the consciences of pigrims who felt bullied by the local bishop.

Nothing much official has come from the Vatican since then. However, a treasure trove of unofficial interviews and comments have given Medjugorje supporters much to cheer about (read here). The following is an EXTREMELY interesting piece of unofficial support from the same man who wrote the letter describe above (Cardinal Bertone):

Source: Sister Emmanuel in her Medjugorje Report 15 May, 1999

Let me tell you about an interesting report, already published in the magazine "Maria" (March-April 1999) concerning Medjugorje.

(Remember that during Pentecost 1998, Pope Jean-Paul II invited the 'New Communities' to Rome. On this occasion, Cardinal Ratzinger expressed the confidence the Church has in those Communities, founded for the most part after Vatican II. He spoke of a "New Springtime in the Church".)

Among these communities, that of "The Beatitudes" is present in Medjugorje. It seeks to be of service to the pilgrims who flock there in great numbers. In order to be well in line with the Church, Dr. Fernand Sanchez, Moderateur General, and Father Francois-Xavier Wallays, a member of the Community's general council, went to Rome on January 12, 1999. They received from the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith its directives in regard to Medjugorje. They were warmly welcomed by the Congregation's Secretary, Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone.

Cardinal Ratzinger and Mgr Bertone know the Community of the Beatitudes and how it developed within the Church, after its recognition by Cardinal Coffy, at the time Archbishop of Albi (France) in 1976.

Moreover, their presence in Medjugorje having started in 1989, Archbishop Bertone was able to refer to something concrete, i.e 10 years of prayer life and apostolic work of this Community there. The conversation which took place was therefore based on the precise experience of the particular community. It should not be taken as a word systematically given to every Catholic group. Nevertheless, some elements give much light on the Vatican's position towards Medjugorje, and should cut short many rumours. Besides, they can easily be checked in Rome itself.

Dr. Sanchez - Can we remain in Medjugorje and continue our apostolate there of Evangelization with the pilgrims ?

Arch. Bertone - Not only can you do so, but you must remain in Medjugorje, at the service of the pilgrims ! (The answer was categorical.)

Dr. Sanchez - Can we continue to accompany private pilgrimages there?

Arch. Bertone - It is necessary to accompany private pilgrimages!


Archbishop Bertone stated:
"For the moment, one should consider Medjugorje as a Sanctuary, a Marian shrine, in the same way as Czestochowa."
He added:

"The Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith has asked the Episcopal Conference of Bosnia Hercegovina to take over the dossier of Medjugorje and start again from the beginning. A team of experts will take part in the work."

People like E Michael Jones appear to disregard anything unofficial when it suits them, but will quite happily spread lies, calumny and false witness over the whole globe.

POLITIKA: None of the pilgrims to Medjugorje have ever seen anything

Well, I'm not sure what he is talking about. He appears to simply not know much. Jones' response to this question, by the way, was to pinpoint an alleged occasion where a naked woman spirit was spotted and attempted to make a connection with alleged Franciscan sexual impropriety and paint a picture of demonic infestation. Very poor journalism. Regardless, the fact is that there are literally HUNDREDS and THOUSANDS of testimonies by pilgrims who have seen many things, including the Virgin Mary. Testimonies come from the most unlikely of places. Here is just the tip of the iceberg.

E MICHAEL JONES: Medjugorje is an operation of one particular group of Franciscans who have had a long history of rebellious behavior and who are a disgrace to the Catholic Church.

E Michael Jones either doesn't know the church history of the region or just doesn't want to tell anyone. A very bitter article against the secular clergy in this region was written by a Franciscan who lived through those terrible times during the Herzegovinian Affair. Readers are invited to come to their own conclusions after reading this article. Warning: If you have been a supporter of Zanic and Peric, be prepared to be disappointed, unless you are a lover of truth.

POLITIKA: What do we do with the fraud lasting for 28 years now?

This one question summarises the maverick attitude of conspiracy theorists who think they know better than the Vatican. Gung-ho, control freaks who need the Vatican's nice-and-easy-does-it approach more than anyone, yet are the least able to tolerate it. He says "What do WE do?". Well, here's what we do. We wait for the Vatican! Let the Vatican do what THEY do. And we resist the urge to indulge in character assassination, gossip and rumour-mongering.

E Michael Jones responds to this article and gets it right back again